It is the merry month of May and the scary month of May. Secular groups make history by meeting with the White House Office of Faith-Based & Neighborhood Partnerships, but the Supreme Court decision to hear an abortion ban case is very bad news. After listening to Kristin Lems’ song “Days of the Theocracy,” we talk with sociologist Phil Zuckerman, a professor at Pitzer College, about his Secular Studies program and his LA Times article claiming: “There is no reason to fear a secular nation.”

Listen to the podcast here.